Modern Day RACISM, or acceptable?
Posted by Holly in Blunt Honesty, Thai Times
The first time I lived in Thailand, I was 16 years old, and an exchange student at a local Thai high school in Bangkok. That was my first experience with getting charged higher prices than others because I am a “falang,” – that is a word Thai people use to classify foreigners, or non-Thais.
Some foreigners become offended when they are constantly being referred to as a “falang,” rather than by their name. Personally, I can understand enough Thai to know what people are saying when they are talking, and hearing the word “falang” everyday doesn’t usually bother me. It depends on the situation, the tone of the person and how it is used. In general, I’d say it’s a bit rude of a word, but I normally feel no anger surrounding it.
Being overcharged for things when you are traveling in a foreign country is pretty normal, and bartering and bargaining is as well. I’d like to know of your opinion about something related to that.
When is overcharging based on race, taken too far? And is it blatant racism?
My good friend visited Thailand a couple of months ago and we traveled to a National Park, Doi Inthanon, it is the highest mountain in Thailand. I was a little surprised when we paid for our entrance. I was given a Thai price because I have a Thai license. Before I got that license I would have been paying the higher amount.
You can view the tickets below:
- THAI PRICE: 40 Baht ($1.25 USD)
- “FALANG” PRICE: 400 Baht ($12.40 USD)
What do you think about it? Is it ok to do, or is it surprising that this happens in this day and age? I just wanted to hear some opinions – and have you ever had any similar experiences. If so, where, when and what happened?
15 Responses to “Modern Day RACISM, or acceptable?”
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TheDavinator
16. May, 2008
Hmm, this reminds me of a stop we had made in Calgary, Alberta about 10 years ago back in my band touring days. We had stopped to get gas. When we went in to use the washroom we were shocked to see a sign that said. “Washroom Is Free For Seik’s (not sure if I’m spelling that correctly) only. Everybody else must pay $1.00″ This was truly alarming to see, as we’d never seen a sign like that in a public establishment in Canada before. The way I understand it is a “Seik” is a person of Islamic background.
Either way, it was really odd to see such a sign in Canada. Canadians, for the most part are a very friendly and kind hearted culture. For a while there were quite a few Canadians somewhat upset, mainly in the cities because there were so many foreigners coming into Canada and being treated far better by the government, in terms of financial help, as compared to many of it’s regular citizens. Many immigrants would come into Canada and be given so much aid it was allowing them to have their own homes and cars etc, while we still had a lot of homeless Canadians on the streets not able to qualify for help in many circumstances because of their Canadian status.
Personally, I wish people from all reaches of our planet could just forget about our differences in race or religion. It seems like such a waste of precious time for us to be concerned with such things.
One race-the human race!
Cheers Davin
Dustin
16. May, 2008
That’s a very interesting question you pose. I guess it depends on how you approach the scenario. If you approach it from a bartering standpoint, it would make sense that people are going to try to get away with charging someone who is not familiar with the area and customs more money for something than someone who IS familiar with it. It may not be a highly ethical thing to do, but I could see why people would do it.
I guess I first would be curious to know if you or your friend would have tried to talk the price down, if they would have conceded. (Or did you try?) If they would refuse to negotiate the price down, then I would say (at least in my mind) that’s unfair treatment. Having said that, going back and looking at where you were visiting, could it have something to do with residency vs, non-resident? For example, at colleges here, a non-resident will pay more for tuition than a resident of the county. The same is true for hunting/fishing licenses as well.
The bartering and negotiating system always amazed me when I was stationed in Korea. I’m used to walking in a place and paying the price that they ask for. The first time I was in an electronics market in Seoul and had a friend with me who knew how to negotiate, I ended up paying HALF of what I was going to pay for something. It wasn’t anything expensive, but I was going to pay twice as much just because I wasn’t familiar with the system!
Holly
17. May, 2008
Thanks Davin and Dustin! I agree with the “ONE RACE” statement!
For Dustin’s comment – the experience you had in Korea is definitely the norm here as well. If you aren’t familiar with the prices, then you will need to pay or bargain to get whatever price you can. That is normal. The Park we went to when my friend paid 400 baht – there you absolutely cannot bargain. If they put it in writing somewhere, then it seems to make it “ok” – lol. The first and only time I’ve confronted about this was my first real experience with this.
I was going to the zoo with my son for the first time, and there you drive in your car from place to place. I can read enough to read the signs they had up and the signs said what the prices were for adults and kids. Then when I met the person who was handing out tickets, he asked me for about twice as much or more for the tickets. I was confused and told him in Thai that it says the price right on the sign there – and I pointed to it. He said “you pay falang price, sorry,” and I had to in order to get in. Then I looked at the english brochure or printout they gave me with a map of the zoo and the prices on there were written in English and reflected the much higher prices. In a way I understand, but when you are faced with this odd situation (esp if you are from the states) it is not as easy to deal with. I think some foreigners living here get frustrated with the constant overcharges and being called “farang” like you are an alien!
lol..I’m not sure…
Dustin
17. May, 2008
The sign that Davin mentioned sounds like it was posted in a racist fashion – like the water fountains and bathrooms in the US that said “whites only” or “blacks only”.
Do you think that the national park you visited was charging more to “aliens” in an unethical manner? Or do you think that maybe it had to do with a resident fee vs. a non-resident fee? When you visited the zoo, did you have your Thai license then?
I tend to be a little naive sometimes (I like to think people are good!) and try to explain things away innocently probably a little more than I should – but I just can’t help wonder if in those two instances it was a resident vs non-resident thing. If you had your Thai license when you went to the zoo, was it ever requested or presented to see if perhaps you were a resident and would get a resident price? It’s horrible to make judgments on people because the color of their skin, but it IS possible that because you don’t look Thai, that maybe you’re not a resident. Coupled with the fact that you can speak enough Thai to read the signs and tell the worker in Thai that you can read the price COULD also mean that you probably speak Thai with an American accent and consequently, unless proof is given, they may think you are a non-resident.
OR – maybe it is being done in a racist fashion. Maybe I’m too naive for my own good!
william
17. May, 2008
Interesting point you bring up. Well first of all regardless of race, color or creed, I have never been able to determine the color of anyones soul, spirit, life essence, personality or whatever you choose to believe in. And for those who do not believe in a soul or spirit and think life is simply matter, i.e. a brain, the answer should be even simper, that is we are all gray. Having said that here is what I think.
Factually most western countries have the same practice for their amusement parks and zoo’s. Go to Disney land or six flags, in California present your california license and you can get a discount (at least last time I checked but that was several years ago). Most European countries do it too. While residing in Denmark I could get a yearly pass for the zoo for 50 USd. Whereas the tourist spends 20 USd for a daily pass, and is not eligible for they yearly one.
So I think this is simply a common business practice. Now in the case of “developing countries” Tourism is sometimes one of the major sources of revenue for that country. The local population usually has a much lower income level than tourists so can not afford high prices.
But to be really fair one would need to do an analysis of the income sources of the each individual location, look at running costs, and see whether the place can even keep running from only local traffic. You might find out that only the tourism makes it possible. So pricing everything at the same low price would make it impossible to run, or making everything the same high price would deny local population or kids from ever going there.
In regards to the term “falang” as long as it is not used derogatorily, I Don’t see what people are complaining about. You can use the word “foreigner” in polite or rude fashion depending of tone of voice and intonation as well.
As regards to personal experience, when I went to Tanzania and took a two week trip through the Zerengeti (a wildlife reserve), being a foreigner I paid some steep prices. Okay that wasn’t all that fun, but at the same time, it didn’t bankrupt me either. And when I compared my living conditions to the population there, I almost went into shock.
Seeing kids bathe in mud puddles, mothers with babies begging in the streets… and far worse. I honestly could not get myself to even buy food for a few days no matter what the price and no matter the fact that I was being charged at least 10 times the amount that locals were. When I was finally hungry enough to be able to eat again I gladly paid the higher prices and bought at local markets, not in stores set up for westerners. The “higher prices” I paid were still dirt cheap compared to “home”. So at the end of my trip I had spent all my “wealth” the “considerable fortune” of a 15 year old. But in exchange I had the experience of a lifetime. I don’t regret overpaying at all, since my daily expenditures were usually higher than the average local monthly income.
The only place that left me sour was local laws that I could only change currency at the government approved offices, and they gave really bad rates. That I do consider discrimination. So I simply changed all my USD on the black market, and got about 4 times the “exchange rate”
annaverawilliams
17. May, 2008
Okay. When I was 18 I was taking a bus through Western China and the bus stopped at a hotel in the middle of the desert.
Everyone else was paying the equivalent of $1.00 for dorm beds. When my turn came, she said it was $5.00 (whatever that was in Yuan – I think it was 25). She said there were “no more $1.00 beds left.” I argued and got nowhere.
SO … being a teanager, I went outside and sat down with my sleeping bag on the ground of the parking lot. I leaned against the giant tire of the bus and proceeded to “go to sleep.” (I’d have stayed in the bus, but it was locked.”
Of course this got lots of attention and people came telling me I could not sleep there etc. And then suddenly “a $1.00 bed became available.” So I went and slept in a bed for $1.00, which was fine.
I am not saying if it is right or wrong. Just reminded me of that.
It is not correct to charge different because of your race. BUT it is also not correct that the suppressive imbalances of our economies put us at such an advantage. And I think THAT is what they object to.
You can travel or live in Asia for a small percentage of a US salary. The reverse is not the same. So I think that is what gets to them.
kathy
17. May, 2008
Well, I might could understand a different price if you are visiting a foreign country and you are going to attractions that are paid for by citizens tax dollars. Since you are not helping to pay for it through tax dollars, then I could understand paying a higher price. Otherwise I think it’s discrimination and it’s dispicable.
Link
18. May, 2008
I have not seen something like the ticket thing above but I have been to places where ripping off Americans/Westerners was part of the culture and it was up to you to know better. In India and Nepal it is up to you to barter, bargain, etc. You would be amazed how much they will come down in price if you bargain, pretend you will come back another day, start to leave, etc.
Otherwise, you lose.
Rodney
18. May, 2008
One Race? Yes, but who will win?
I’ve lived in China for 5 1/2 years and the same situation exists there. What I really miss about Australia is every one gets the same price, no matter where you come from or how good your English is. Of course people have words for NonAnglo Australians but rarely say them to their face. Why? They can be severely prosecuted. That’s right! So in Australia (OZ) a Thai is a Thai Ozzie, never a foreigner, but if they act like a local they are an Ozzie, not even called a Thai, or Thai Ozzie.
Here in Hong Kong I can get charged more than the local Hong Kong people, or Honkies. It’s quite common on every day food items in small shops, but you can’t bargain. If you bargain that can get very angry. They lose face and you pay big time for that. When I was in BKK I tried to bargain too, some times I got a good deal but often they got angry too. Yes, Thais do get angry. Once I tried to bargain a tuk tuk ride and the driver wanted to punch me out. Ah, I got my own back; after 2 AM you can get a tuk tuk for a song!!! I found that when I learned some Thai I got the same price as the locals, and if I kept going back to the same place I’d get it cheaper, or they’d give me extra; WOW!!! As far as admission fees I’d suggest hanging around the gate and get a local to get you a ticket to go in. There’s myth that all farang are rich. They don’t discriminate between the farang there working for foreign corporations, tourists, and the expats. But alot of expats have high pensions or high paying businesses too. You can ask the price, try to bargain, and if they won’t come down, just put your hands together, bow, say “kohb kun krub or kah” and walk away. I found when I did that they would call me back and give me a better price. Also on my first few nights in BKK I would go to Sukhumvit Soy Bars and walk back to the hostel I was staying in, quite late. One night I got surrounded by a bunch of angry hookers and they all wanted some of my money, they were getting pretty aggressive. I was scared as two of them were ladyboys. I just put my hands together, bowed and said,”Sawasdee Krub,” and they all just stopped, put their hands together, bowed, said,”Sawasdee kah.” While they were doing that I made my get away. I saw them a few nights later and they were much friendlier and even happy to see me!
In China they say,”Laowai,” that’s old foreigner. It’s supposed to be repectful but in some towns mobs of people, up to 300 hundred will follow you around, all chanting in unison,”Laowai!” It can get pretty scarey as they’ll really mob you and grab you to touch you to see if you are real. I kid you not. So I, with some locals, worked out a handling. I wold say to them that I am not a foreigner, that they were the foreigner. That only got them angry because they can’t think about such a concept due to their ethnocentric Communist Party training. I saw some very big trainings done in the town I was in. The Party would round up 50,000 people and make them watch a propaganda movie out in a field some where and get all their ID numbers. They barred me from going to see the movie. So I worked out how to say, in Chinese,”I’m an Earth person.” Man, they just laughed or or shook my hand or just walked away and never gave me one more thought. I knew it worked as I suddenly became anonymous to the people I said it to the next time i saw them. Then I worked out how to ask them if they were an Earth person too. Well, I got taken home to meet the family, taken to banquets, to meet the Party Officials, free hotel rooms, etc. etc.
So, here’s my suggestion; learn to say, in Thai,”I’m not a foreigner, I am an Earth person. Are you an Earth person, too? Then if they say they are then say,”you are my earth cousin, brother, sister, etc.”
Holly
18. May, 2008
Thank you for the comments everyone. They are all very unique and entertaining in their own ways. Wow Rodney and Anna have some pretty funny stories. The thing You did Anna, I know I’ve done things like that in the past (when you were sitting outside because you wouldn’t pay the overpriced amount). I did that once in Thailand at a store just because I knew the price to get home by taxi and they tried to way overcharge me. I said forget it and walked on and then realized that all of the taxis there were setup together. What I mean is, they ALL charge the same outrageous amount and there are no other taxis around there – so you have to pay it!
Rodney your stories are also very entertaining – you have really been around the globe. I like your idea about saying I am not a falang but an earth person! That is funny – they’d get a kick out of it.
annaverawilliams
19. May, 2008
Yeah … in the small villages in China, that was a real nightmare. You just go to get something out of your pocket and you have 30 people closing in on you to see what you are doing. No exaggeration …
One time I was sitting on the ground near a train station somewhere in central China. I was writing in my journal. (Yes, I am so old I remember when we didn’t have laptops haha).
Anyway there was such a crowd of people gathering around me in a circle to watch me. Like I was a street performing singing with a guitar. But I wasn’t, I was just trying to update my journal. So I took my hat and put it out in front of me upside down. I thought I should get paid for my performance. But they didn’t get it. Not a clue. At least I amused myself with my solitaire joke.
Rodney
20. May, 2008
Hi Holly,
I haven’t been all around the world, just to China, Thailand, USA and the Caribean. The latter on private cruise ship; USD$2300 for 3 1/2 weeks, all inclusive, 7 ports of call, tours, WOW. Members only, membership is open. That’s another story.
I suggest asking the,”Are you an Earth Person too?” It really works in Asia. It facilitates the one family concept, instantly, if only just for a moment. You can remind them if they seem to forget.
I’ll be learning it in Bahasa this week.
Yes, I can relate to the intensity of inspection one gets in China. I found that if you just say,”Hello.” They will all disperse. I did have to be rescued from a near trampling once, in a huge kindergarten of all places!
I recommend going to China, you will be in for an adventure. Just dress down and you’ll be OK, wear your back pack in front at bus and train stations, and go to toilets in hotels, KFC and Mcdonalds, or out under/behind a bush or tree. If you do go contact me via here and I’ll point you in the right direction. Just remember one thing; if a Chinese person gives you some thing don’t pay them back, or try to, and don’t ever refuse it no matter how disgusting it may seem. What you do with it, away from them, is up to you. Also if you give them some thing they will be forever in your debt, they will be duty bound to help you in any way you may need.
nichemkr
02. Jun, 2008
Hey Rodney, if you ever write a book, let me know. I would like to read it. Fascinating stuff. My only experience with buying something overseas was a camera I bartered for in Singapore. The salesman was getting pretty angry as I tried to talk the price down. I ended up getting the camera, but I think they got the better deal. Good actors.
Whether or not a higher price for foreigners is right or wrong? I think it depends on the culture. America is the melting pot, not Thailand or China. Racism is always wrong, but many cultures have not had to really deal with the kinds of issues you find in American history. Maybe from their viewpoint, they are being very tolerant just to let you live in their country. Be thankful you are not under martial law from the latest military coup. Constitution? What’s that?
sunstreak
05. Jun, 2008
I can relate because during the time that I spent in foreign countries this kind of thing, as you state is very common. I think for the most part, in my experience I saw quite a bit of poverty and they are just trying to get what they can when the opportunity comes along.
As with business I remember being overcharged to the tune of about $20/day for a hotel until a restaurant owner told me that we should not be charged any more than $7 where we were staying. We simply told the front desk that if we had the regular $7/day charge we would spend more money at the bar and other places in the hotel. He was happy and rewarded because we then told quite a few people from our ship and ended up bringing him so much more business.
I don’t think it’s mean or dishonest I think they know that foreigners can afford it. Although it is a huge jump in price I think $12.40 is quite high for what they normally charge but in comparison for most things in the U.S. it’s more than double that. It’s still a bargain LOL
As with using the word “falang” I certainly remember that as well lol. I never took offense because it was always said in a friendly way among friends and even strangers I met once we broke the ice. I LOVE THAILAND! There’s something about the people there and THE FOOD!.. oh you lucky duck, the food is so good
sunstreak
05. Jun, 2008
Sorry, one more thing. Rodney that’s so clever. When i lived in Japan for while I started to do the Holly thing and learn the language and kind of blend. That obviously can take time and all I had to do was most likely do what you did. LOL. “You’re all my Earth cousins now since I am an Earth person. Hello Earth family!”